While hauling treated steel rebar along I-80 toward California, Mike and Matt reflect on crossing the Continental Divide,using it as a metaphor for the deep social, cultural, and political divisions in America — emphasizing the need for empathy, mutual respect, and listening to understand rather than simply attacking opposing viewpoints.
Encouraging folks to "say what you mean, mean what you say, just don't be mean when you say it," they reflect on media literacy, echo chambers, and the spread of misinformation -- stressing the civil responsibility to verify facts, cross-check sources, and apply a scientific mindset to news instead of falling for sensationalism.
Good morning, this is Mike George here on the road with Matt Gutierrez over here. Right now, we are on Interstate 80, heading westward from Denver to approximately San Francisco, over in the Bay Area.
Pacifica, California, is our next destination. Matt, what are we taking over there?
Matt:
Some long, hard steel rebar coated with green paint, which is weather-treated.
Mike:
Right, so it looks like these are weather-treated steel rebar for embedding within reinforced concrete, which they have a lot of in California. We just brought some raw, untreated rebar to CMC out in Brighton, Colorado, and picked up this new rebar that was weather-treated with a coating of paint. We're taking it over to a water treatment plant project in California to be used in big concrete structures that hold water and need to withstand earthquakes.
We just passed over the Continental Divide of the United States. The Continental Divide is a ridge along the Rockies that separates the direction of the watersheds—everything west of the divide eventually flows into the Pacific Ocean, and everything east of the divide eventually flows into the Gulf of Mexico or the Atlantic Ocean.
Passing over the divide got us thinking about the major political and social divides currently facing our nation. Babe, what are some of the things we've been seeing on social media and the news?
Matt:
There has been way too much hate and bullshit, and not enough love, peace, harmony, and unity. That's my takeaway from it so far.
Mike:
Right. It seems like every Pride event this year has had some drama, whether seen on the news or social media. In Columbus, there was a disruption by Black Lives Matter advocates who tried to stop the parade. The parade was halted, and law enforcement eventually stepped in to clear the route and allow the event to proceed.
Matt:
Sidebar on that: the Columbus Police Department was already aware that an interruption might happen, and the event coordinator spoke with police beforehand to ask that it be handled as peacefully as possible. But that is not what happened.
Mike:
It blew up into a big issue with pepper spray involved, catching innocent bystanders and kids in the fray as direct witnesses. The debacle eventually led to major resignations by individuals who had been staples in the Columbus queer community and direct advocacy realms. It's sad to see.
Matt:
It's okay to have opinions and we are allowed to think differently, but when it gets into name-calling and personal attacks, that is not acceptable. We are allowed to agree to disagree, but thinking only one side is correct and not being willing to hear other people out—listening to respond rather than listening to understand—that is what is missing in the world right now.
Mike:
Amen, brother! We live in a complicated world where different people hold distinct perspectives. Whether it's political topics like Black Lives Matter, the direction of queer community advocacy, or incidents like Charlottesville where extremists disrupted an event, these dynamics are real. What worries me is the possibility of white supremacists showing up at a Pride event and those two forces converging into a conflict.
Matt:
Something recent that transpired—and indirectly affects me—is President Trump pardoning former Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Having lived in Maricopa County, Arizona, where Joe Arpaio served as sheriff, I saw his directives to deputies regarding detaining, arresting, and deporting people. The courts found him guilty of contempt of court and other infractions. By pardoning him, President Trump essentially used his position of power to excuse those actions and remove any repercussions.
Whatever your opinion on immigration, no one except Native Americans—who crossed the Bering Strait land bridge—is originally native to this continent. By the way, I'm looking at a radioactive transport truck that just passed us—that's the third one today, so if I end up growing an extra head, you'll know why!
We have all immigrated to this country. While there needs to be structure and legal steps to gain citizenship and naturalization, requiring people to speak English or adhere to a specific faith to enter goes against what this country was founded on. Furthermore, many naturalized citizens who go through that process know more about this country than people naturally born in it. Now I'll step off my soapbox!
Mike:
President Trump's pattern of behavior reminds me of how I used to act in middle school—when working with a large group that disagrees, you eventually say "fuck it, I'm going to do it my way" and go rogue. His approach seems like a reaction to a dysfunctional system of government that experienced total gridlock in Congress over the last decade. It's like someone in a six-hour meeting saying, "Fuck it, I'm doing this on my own while you sit back and quibble over petty shit".
As much as I detest President Trump and his ineffective leadership, I have to admit his assertiveness reminds me of my own past management style—stepping in to take control when a collective group is quibbling instead of taking action. It's a sharp contrast to Obama's cerebral approach of exhaustive collaboration, debate, and analysis before taking action. The political pendulum swings back and forth—from Clinton's slow-moving collaboration, to George W. Bush's shoot-from-the-hip style, to Obama, and now to Trump.
Watching Trump manage his administration is a case study for people like me who have struggled with managing groups. I'll be honest: in my personal life, I've had staff who hated me, protested against my leadership, and resigned because my management style was too dictatorial. That stemmed from my own impatience and arrogance.
I've realized you can't just be assertive; you have to take an encouraging approach.
Matt:
That style is very manipulative!
Mike:
It is manipulative, but that's how politics works. You have to steer people's motivations toward a common goal, like corralling cattle, but do it in a patient, deliberative, and democratic way.
In engineering and science, we glorify individuals like Edison and Tesla, but major projects are never built by one person alone; they require deliberation and debate. Historically, many engineering projects lacked that deliberation—such as Hydro-Québec building hydroelectric facilities and dams in James Bay, which impacted the Cree nation's land, or modern fracking operations that affect local drinking water and traffic without giving residents a say.
We see the consequences when one vision proceeds without necessary questions, constraints, or local consultation. In this country, we've somewhat lost the art of consensus. While 100% consensus is an ideal, striving for it allows us to give people a voice, listen with an open mind, and acknowledge when our own ideas aren't the best option.
Technological progress in fields like energy is exciting, but rapid development without necessary public conversations can be dangerous. Technical experts and citizens alike need to make a greater effort to listen to all sides, correct inaccuracies respectfully without being an asshole, and reach accurate outcomes.
Matt:
There's a great saying I heard from Trish Norman at a leadership conference I attended:
“Say what you mean and mean what you say, just don’t be mean when you say it.”
She's a wonderful, inspirational speaker on leadership.
Driving long distances puts you in a bubble where you can forget the outside world, but staying informed is part of our civic responsibility.
Mike:
Knowledge is power, and being uninformed leaves you in the dark.
Matt:
Most truck-stop TVs are locked on Fox News, but when we stopped in Pueblo, Colorado, they had both Fox News and CBS on, which gave two different perspectives. Modern journalism used to be about getting facts and telling it like it is, but now media organizations focus on beefing up stories for ratings.
Mike:
Information has become a hyper-competitive, capitalist market where nuance competes against instant gratification.
Matt:
I challenge people on Facebook not to take everything at face value. Do your research and verify whether something is true before reposting it. Fake news stories—like rumors claiming Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson died—spread like a virus because people post just to be part of the conversation.
Mike:
People tend to read sources that reinforce their existing worldviews—liberals reading Mother Jones or Huffington Post, and conservatives reading Fox News or Breitbart. We should rely more on the scientific method to iteratively check theories using objective methodologies.
In the past, trained journalists and editors filtered out false data, but in the "Google generation," anyone can claim to be an expert online. We now have the added responsibility of validating information ourselves. I recently watched a CNBC clip where two trained economist hosts confronted a Trump surrogate who tried to give Trump full credit for ongoing economic growth, lower unemployment, and rising Dow Jones averages. The hosts presented chart after chart showing those upward trends began back in 2009 under the Obama administration following the 2008 recession recovery and stimulus. I applaud those CNBC hosts for shutting down false claims with real data.
Matt:
I've been an equality advocate since I was 14 years old, marching in my first Pride parade, working with Marriage Equality of Colorado, and volunteering with the HRC, the Colorado AIDS Project, and organizations in Dayton, Ohio, and Portland. Over time, I've learned that I don't know everything. My managerial philosophy is trust and verify — trust people to do their jobs or trust experts, but verify the information by doing your own homework and researching multiple perspectives.
Mike:
We are currently traveling through southeastern Wyoming along I-80, having entered from Colorado via US-287. We passed through Laramie earlier.
Matt:
Passing through Laramie always gives me a sick, heavy feeling in my stomach because of what happened there, though the landscape itself is beautiful, windy, and hilly.
Mike:
Let's open up Dr. Frank Tennyson's book, Sparkle and Kick It, to a random page. It says: "Be diligent so that that which has blessed passing your lips stays blessed." To me, that means walking the walk, following through on your promises, and putting in the hard work to overcome obstacles like procrastination.
Matt:
To me, diligence means putting in the work for your job, relationship, or spiritual growth. And ensuring what passes your lips stays blessed means not being an asshole or deliberately saying hateful things when you speak.
Mike:
We just passed a truck turnout in Wyoming, so we're going to take a rest. Thank you all for listening, and have a fabulous Saturday!
